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Poster: Bob Gnarley Date: Jul 24, 2008 11:01am
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semitic content on site

"It seems as if taking offense is the recreation of choice in modern America."- Selwyn Duke

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Poster: lancelotlmg Date: Jul 24, 2008 3:25pm
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semitic content on site

I am very happy to go on record as being against Nazis and even crypto-Nazis. I think most users of the Archive agree with me. Posting WWII Nazi propaganda broadcasts is good history. 'Introducing' them with modern falsehoods is a violation of the Archive's neutral intent. If that offends Selwyn and David Duke, I can live with that.

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Poster: SteveBrandon Date: Jul 28, 2008 4:27am
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semiitic content on site

There isn't a clear division between WWII and today's history. The Anti-Semitic content should stay, not because it isn't offensive or anywhere near being right, but because it too is a part of history which shouldn't be lost. As is this exchange.

There is a bias in current history toward progressive ideas which show modern history as a sweeping movement toward progressive and reform ideals. However, such a view tends to distort history by under playing the very real struggles it takes to get good ideas into circulation, get them implemented, and to keep them current. In many ways it cheapens these struggles.

Anti-Semitism is a stupid, silly, very, very dangerous ideology. That's why it belongs here on a site dedicated to the preservation of the past. It is part of our current reality, and, hence, part of the present and the past we are creating. Thankfully, Anti-Semitic, religious intolerance, and racism, and gender bias views aren't as strong an ideology as they once were. Why? Because folks are now willing to challenge them in public forums, laugh them off any stage to which they gain access, or disregard them as not worth the investment of one's time and energy. Censorship just offers the writer and their ilk a feeling of legitimacy and self-righteous martyrdom. "Look! I'm being oppressed by the liberal, etc."

Are their views offensive? Sure they are. Most stupid, silly, and dangerous ideas are, but these ideas gain legitimacy if they get to see themselves as in struggle with censorship. Some ideas need to just be disregarded as beneath the respect for the other needed to debate them. Some ideas are just offensive but beneath notice and the legitimacy such notice brings.

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Poster: gestroud Date: Aug 4, 2008 10:46am
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semiitic content on site

I think most of the posters in this thread agree with you on allowing the files to remain in the archives. What's at issue is the wording in the description of the files.

"England Murdered Karl Swendler for these AFTER the war likely because he was a Jew baiter."

That is what the discussion is about. Do you consider that an historical fact or an editorial opinion?

This post was modified by gestroud on 2008-08-04 17:46:17

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Poster: SteveBrandon Date: Aug 4, 2008 11:16am
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semiitic content on site

In response to the following:


"I think most of the posters in this thread agree with you on allowing the files to remain in the archives. What's at issue is the wording in the description of the files.

'England Murdered Karl Swendler for these AFTER the war likely because he was a Jew baiter.'

That is what the discussion is about. Do you consider that an historical fact or an editorial opinion?"

I don't know a thing about Karl Swendler; so, I won't venture an opinion. I do know the fact the opinion was expressed is now historical fact, and it is part of this debate. We don't get to record just the opinions we like for the future. If the future is to understand us, it has to understand how we constructed knowledge through debate, so just one side of a debate shouldn't be erased. It does a disservice to us, and it does a disservice to those who will try to understand why we care about the past.

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Poster: gestroud Date: Aug 5, 2008 5:33am
Forum: oldtimeradio Subject: Re: Anti-semiitic content on site

LOL That has to be one of the funniest bits of sophistry I've read in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh. I appreciated it.

You don't know who Schwendler was. You don't know if he was murdered or not. You don't even know if he's dead or alive. Yet it's your contention that an unsubstantiated and possibly inaccurate claim remain in the archives because the "opinion... expressed is now historical fact, and it is part of this debate."

Basically, what you're saying is that I can upload historical files, say anything I want in the description and my words have to remain because my opinion is now a part of history.

I really don't think an historical item's description is the place for color commentary or OpEds. THAT is re-writing history. I strongly believe that opinions and commentary should be reserved for the forums and the item review sections - particularly for the sake of historical accuracy.

Hopefully, we can peacefully agree to disagree.